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";s:4:"text";s:25867:"But let me just -- let me give it a try. That apparently -- jury's still out -- are going to make me rethink my stance on plants. But it was originally done with -- with a dog. Okay. But maybe it makes her sort of more open-minded than -- than someone who's just looking at a notebook. MONICA GAGLIANO: Again, if you imagine that the pot, my experimental pot. It's as if the individual trees were somehow thinking ahead to the needs of the whole forest. ROBERT: Now, you might think that the plant sends out roots in every direction. You know, it goes back to anthropomorphizing plant behaviors. It's condensation. ROBERT: But after five days, she found that 80% of the time, the plants went -- or maybe chose -- to head toward the dry pipe that has water in it. ROBERT: He gives us a magnifying glass. Now the plants if they were truly dumb, they'd go 50/50. We are the principals of Accurate Building Inspectors of Brooklyn, New York. Not really. Like, the plant is hunting? Episodes. They all went closed. With when they actually saw and smelled and ate meat. But we are in the home inspection business. ROBERT: Then of course because it's the BBC, they take a picture of it. Is that what -- is that what this? No, it's far more exciting than that. It's condensation. It was a simple little experiment. Radiolab: Smarty Plants. ROBERT: Packets of minerals. ROBERT: Connecting your house to the main city water line that's in the middle of the street. JENNIFER FRAZER: So there's these little insects that lives in the soil, these just adorable little creatures called springtails. Image credits: Photo Credit: Flickred! And so they have this trading system with trees. And so why is that? ROBERT: Like, I don't understand -- learning, as far as I understand it, is something that involves memory and storage. I don't know. And the classic case of this is if you go back a few centuries ago, someone noticed that plants have sex. Liquid rocks. Or even learn? So that's what the tree gives the fungus. And after not a whole lot of drops the plant, she noticed, stopped closing its leaves. Yeah. And so I don't have a problem with that. Every time. Picasso! Well, I have one thing just out of curiosity ROBERT: As we were winding up with our home inspectors, Alvin and Larry Ubell, we thought maybe we should run this metaphor idea by them. But no, they're all linked to each other! JAD: Wait. So here's what she did. ROBERT: And so now we're down there. This is Ashley Harding from St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada. Again. So let's go to the first. JAD: If the -- if the tube system is giving the trees the minerals, how is it getting it, the minerals? I just listened to this Radiolab episode called "Smarty Plants". So that's where these -- the scientists from Princeton come in: Peter, Sharon and Aatish. ROBERT: And when you measure them, like one study we saw found up to seven miles of this little threading JAD: What is this thing? And so we're digging away, and Jigs was, you know, looking up with his paws, you know, and looking at us, waiting. In the state of California, a medicinal marijuana cultivation license allows for the cultivation of up to 99 plants. It's like Snow White and The Seven Tubes or something. They still remembered. ROBERT: But then, scientists did an experiment where they gave some springtails some fungus to eat. ROBERT: Oh, so this is, like, crucial. We're carefully examining the roots of this oak tree. Just read about plants having brains and doing things that we honestly do not expect them. ROBERT: She says one of the weirdest parts of this though, is when sick trees give up their food, the food doesn't usually go to their kids or even to trees of the same species. The whole thing immediately closes up and makes it look like, "Oh, there's no plant here. And the pea plants are left alone to sit in this quiet, dark room feeling the breeze. So I don't have a problem. Big thanks to Aatish Bhatia, to Sharon De La Cruz and to Peter Landgren at Princeton University's Council on Science and Technology. It involves a completely separate organism I haven't mentioned yet. Nothing delicious at all. Yeah, and I have done inspections where roots were coming up through the pipe into the house. ROBERT: Are you, like, aggressively looking around for -- like, do you wake up in the morning saying, "Now what can I get a plant to do that reminds me of my dog, or reminds me of a bear, or reminds me of a bee?". ROBERT: So the beetles don't want to eat them. JENNIFER FRAZER: This all has a history, of course. I think if I move on to the next experiment from Monica, you're going to find it a little bit harder to object to it. Is it ROBERT: This is like metaphor is letting in the light as opposed to shutting down the blinds. MONICA GAGLIANO: Pretty much like the concept of Pavlov with his dog applied. But instead of dogs, she had pea plants in a dark room. 28. They're father and son. Why is this network even there? I think there is something like a nervous system in the forest, because it's the same sort of large network of nodes sending signals to one another. The plants have to keep pulling their leaves up and they just get tired. So Monica moves the fans to a new place one more time. So we are going to meet a beautiful little plant called a mimosa pudica, which is a perfectly symmetrical plant with leaves on either side of a central stem. If I want to be a healthy tree and reach for the sky, then I need -- I need rocks in me somehow. So that voice belongs to Aatish Bhatia, who is with Princeton University's Council on Science and Technology. But the drop was just shocking and sudden enough for the little plant to Do its reflex defense thing. MONICA GAGLIANO: So then at one point, when you only play the bell for the dog, or you, you know, play the fan for the plant, we know now for the dogs, the dogs is expecting. JAD: Where would the -- a little plant even store a memory? ROBERT: I think if I move on to the next experiment from Monica, you're going to find it a little bit harder to object to it. But when we look at the below ground structure, it looks so much like a brain physically, and now that we're starting to understand how it works, we're going, wow, there's so many parallels. The same one that are used in computers like, you know, really tiny. And the pea plant leans toward them. ROBERT: Huh. And with these two stimuli, she put the plants, the little pea plants through a kind of training regime. And I do that in my brain. Or maybe slower? And the fungus actually builds a tunnel inside the rock. That was my reaction. So its resources, its legacy will move into the mycorrhizal network into neighboring trees. Yeah. Robert Krulwich. SUZANNE SIMARD: And so my mom always talks about how she had to constantly be giving me worm medicine because I was -- I always had worms. Now, can you -- can you imagine what we did wrong? I thought okay, so this is just stupid. Our store also offers Grooming, Training, Adoptions, Veterinary and Curbside Pickup. And so we are under the impression or I would say the conviction that the brain is the center of the universe, and -- and if you have a brain and a nervous system you are good and you can do amazing stuff. And if you go to too many rock concerts, you can break these hairs and that leads to permanent hearing loss, which is bad. The fungi needs sugar to build their bodies, the same way that we use our food to build our bodies. If you get too wrapped up in your poetic metaphor, you're very likely to be misled and to over-interpret the data. ROBERT: She thinks that they somehow remembered all those drops and it never hurt, so they didn't fold up any more. Imagine towering trees to your left and to your right. And she was willing to entertain the possibility that plants can do something like hear. But maybe it makes her sort of more open-minded than -- than someone who's just looking at a notebook. LINCOLN TAIZ: Yes. Like, from the trees perspective, how much of their sugar are they giving to the fungus? No, it's far more exciting than that. Because I have an appointment. MONICA GAGLIANO: Yeah, mimosa has been one of the pet plants, I guess, for many scientists for, like, centuries. No boink anymore. And then Monica would Just about, you know, seven or eight inches. ROBERT: This happens to a lot of people. Well, maybe. JAD: So you couldn't replicate what she saw. You got the plant to associate the fan with food. They just don't like to hear words like "mind" or "hear" or "see" or "taste" for a plant, because it's too animal and too human. And not too far away from this tree, underground, there is a water pipe. MONICA GAGLIANO: Yeah, tested it in my lab. And again. That is correct. SUZANNE SIMARD: Yes, that seems to be what happens. ROBERT: What do mean, the fungi will give me my sugar back? They're not experiencing extra changes, for example. The Douglas fir became diseased and -- and died. The point here is that the scale of this is so vast, and we didn't know this until very, very recently. She says it was like this moment where she realizes, "Oh, my God! Picasso! ROBERT: So light is -- if you shine light on a plant you're, like, feeding it? And when they go in SUZANNE SIMARD: There is Jigs at the bottom of the outhouse, probably six feet down at the bottom of the outhouse pit. Fan first, light after. She's done three experiments, and I think if I tell you about what she has done, you -- even you -- will be provoked into thinking that plants can do stuff you didn't imagine, dream they could do. I spoke to her with our producer Latif Nasser, and she told us that this -- this network has developed a kind of -- a nice, punny sort of name. What is it? They definitely don't have a brain. They can also send warning signals through the fungus. That's okay. I've been looking around lately, and I know that intelligence is not unique to humans. We were so inconsistent, so clumsy, that the plants were smart to keep playing it safe and closing themselves up. This is the plant and pipe mystery. And so I designed this experiment to figure that out. Again. Couldn't it just be an entirely different interpretation here? It's like a savings account? The next one goes, "Uh-oh." Just a boring set of twigs. And moved around, but always matched in the same way together. ROBERT: Is your dog objecting to my analysis? You got somewhere to go? And then JENNIFER FRAZER: They secrete acid. But that day with the roots is the day that she began thinking about the forest that exists underneath the forest. And his idea was to see if he could condition these dogs to associate that food would be coming from the sound of a bell. ROBERT: I know -- I know you -- I know you don't. So I don't have an issue with that. JENNIFER FRAZER: The whole thing immediately closes up and makes it look like, "Oh, there's no plant here. I'll put it down in my fungi. ROBERT: Salmon consumption. JENNIFER FRAZER: Right? She took that notion out of the garden into her laboratory. I don't think Monica knows the answer to that, but she does believe that, you know, that we humans We are a little obsessed with the brain. But what -- how would a plant hear something? SUZANNE SIMARD: I know. JENNIFER FRAZER: An anti-predator reaction? Because I have an appointment. Hey, it's okay. Two very different options for our plant. Right? So maybe the root hairs, which are always found right at the growing tips of plant roots, maybe plant roots are like little ears. ROBERT: And while it took us a while to see it, apparently these little threads in the soil. It turns that carbon into sugar, which it uses to make its trunk and its branches, anything thick you see on a tree is just basically air made into stuff. ROBERT: So you're like a metaphor cop with a melty heart. ROBERT: And you can actually see this happen. ROBERT: And her family included a dog named Jigs. He was a -- what was he? It'd be all random. Oh, well that's a miracle. ALVIN UBELL: If you look at a root under a microscope, what you see is all these thousands of feelers like hairs on your head looking for water. My name is Monica Gagliano. ROBERT: So the plants are now, you know, buckled in, minding their own business. This is like metaphor is letting in the light as opposed to shutting down the blinds. No, Summer is a real person and her last name happens to be spelled R-A-Y-N-E. So after much trial and error with click and hums and buzzes She found that the one stimulus that would be perfect was A little fan. That's okay. Enough of that! ROBERT: And the classic case of this is if you go back a few centuries ago, someone noticed that plants have sex. ROBERT: So she takes the plants, she puts them into the parachute drop, she drops them. Did Jigs emerge? Maybe there's some kind of signal? I'll put it down in my fungi. Then she takes the little light and the little fan and moves them to the other side of the plant. LARRY UBELL: Good. I think you can be open-minded but still objective. Like, they don't have ears or a brain or anything like, they couldn't hear like we hear. And of course we had to get Jigs out. ALVIN UBELL: The glass is not broken. ], Our staff includes Simon Adler, Brenna Farrow, David Gebel. But we are in the home inspection business. They definitely don't have a brain. But we are in the home inspection business. ROBERT: Let me just back up for a second so that you can -- to set the scene for you. Along with a home-inspection duo, a science writer, and some enterprising . JAD: What exchange would that be, Robert? ROBERT: And we saw this in the Bronx. SUZANNE SIMARD: And so I designed this experiment to figure that out. And then I needed to -- the difficulty I guess, of the experiment was to find something that will be quite irrelevant and really meant nothing to the plant to start with. But instead of dogs, she had pea plants in a dark room. I am the blogger of The Artful Amoeba at Scientific American. ROBERT: It turns that carbon into sugar, which it uses to make its trunk and its branches, anything thick you see on a tree is just basically air made into stuff. JENNIFER FRAZER: From a particular direction. They're switched on. In my brain. What was your reaction when you saw this happen? JAD: Is it just pulling it from the soil? ROBERT: So maybe could you just describe it just briefly just what you did? Can you -- will you soften your roots so that I can invade your root system?" ROBERT: Had indeed turned and moved toward the fan, stretching up their little leaves as if they were sure that at any moment now light would arrive. ROBERT: But the drop was just shocking and sudden enough for the little plant to ROBERT: Then Monica hoists the plant back up again and drops it again. On one side, instead of the pipe with water, she attaches an MP3 player with a little speaker playing a recording of ROBERT: And then on the other side, Monica has another MP3 player with a speaker. This happens to a lot of people. MONICA GAGLIANO: Like a defensive mechanism. ROBERT: They shade each other. So you can -- you can see this is like a game of telephone. Wait a second. But she had a kind of, maybe call it a Jigs-ian recollection. Ring, meat, eat. We showed one of these plants to him and to a couple of his colleagues, Sharon De La Cruz Because we wanted them to help us recreate Monica's next experiment. Like trees of different species are supposed to fight each other for sunshine, right? Jad and Robert, they are split on this one. They have to -- have to edit in this together. Have you hugged your houseplant today? ROBERT: So I think what she would argue is that we kind of proved her point. But it was originally done with -- with a dog. It's 10 o'clock and I have to go. On one side, instead of the pipe with water, she attaches an MP3 player with a little speaker playing a recording of And then on the other side, Monica has another MP3 player with a speaker. Here's the water.". When you go into a forest, you see a tree, a tall tree. ROBERT: [laughs] You mean, like the World Wide Web? And therefore she might, in the end, see something that no one else would see. JENNIFER FRAZER: I am the blogger of The Artful Amoeba at Scientific American. One tree goes "Uh-oh." All right, my hypothesis is that what happens is You got somewhere to go? So the -- this branching pot thing. And again. The water is still in there. MONICA GAGLIANO: Or would just be going random? They definitely don't have a brain. No question there. I don't know yet. So they might remember even for a much longer time than 28 days. MONICA GAGLIANO: I don't know. Which by the way, is definitely not a plant. But ROBERT: We did catch up with her a few weeks later. Today, Robert drags Jad along ona parade for the surprising feats of brainless plants. That's okay. ROBERT: Monica's work has actually gotten quite a bit of attention from other plant biologists. I mean, I think there's something to that. AATISH BHATIA: This feels one of those experiments where you just abort it on humanitarian grounds, you know? ROBERT: What happened to you didn't happen to us. And it's good it was Sunday. JENNIFER FRAZER: Into which she put these sensitive plants. I mean the fungus is JENNIFER FRAZER: No, no, no. ROBERT: Well, so what's the end of the story? And we saw this in the Bronx. ROBERT: She found that the one stimulus that would be perfect was MONICA GAGLIANO: A little fan. It's a family business. So they can't move. We are the principals of Accurate Building Inspectors of Brooklyn, New York. ROBERT: This happens to a lot of people. ROBERT: say they're very curious, but want to see these experiments repeated. ], [JENNIFER FRAZER: Soren Wheeler is Senior Editor. I'm 84. Gebel. I mean, it's a kind of romanticism, I think. So she decided to conduct her experiment. MONICA GAGLIANO: Yeah. But if you dig a little deeper, there's a hidden world beneath your feet as busy and complicated as a city at rush hour. They run out of energy. Yeah, and hopefully not be liquefied by the fungus beneath us. And she goes into that darkened room with all the pea plants. ROBERT: We, as you know, built your elevator. Let him talk. But Monica says what she does do is move around the world with a general feeling of What if? Absolutely not. JAD: The part where the water pipe was, the pipe was on the outside of the pot? ROBERT: He's got lots of questions about her research methods, but really his major complaint is -- is her language. So she's got her plants in the pot, and we're going to now wait to see what happens. Of Accurate Building Inspectors. Radiolab is supported in part by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation, enhancing public understanding of science and technology in the modern world. ROBERT: Give it to the new -- well, that's what she saying. Maybe each root is -- is like a little ear for the plant. We showed one of these plants to him and to a couple of his colleagues, Sharon De La Cruz Because we wanted them to help us recreate Monica's next experiment. And does it change my place in the world? STEPHANIE TAM: Can the tree feel you ripping the roots out like that? ], [JENNIFER FRAZER: Our staff includes Simon Adler, Becca Bressler, Rachael Cusick ], [ALVIN UBELL: David -- David Gebel. And it can reach these little packets of minerals and mine them. ROBERT: One of the spookiest examples of this Suzanne mentioned, is an experiment that she and her team did where they discovered that if a forest is warming up, which is happening all over the world, temperatures are rising, you have trees in this forest that are hurting. And it's more expensive. ROBERT: A little while back, I had a rather boisterous conversation with these two guys. ROBERT: Again, science writer Jennifer Frazer. So it's predicting something to arrive. In this case, a little blue LED light. And she says this time they relaxed almost immediately. MONICA GAGLIANO: Picasso, enough of that now. The tree will wrap its roots around that pipe. Does it threaten your sense of humanity that you depend for pretty much every single calorie you eat on a plant? Fan, light, lean. It spits out the O2. So it wasn't touching the dirt at all. Take it. So she decided to conduct her experiment. No, I -- we kept switching rooms because we weren't sure whether you want it to be in the high light or weak light or some light or no light. You have a forest, you have mushrooms. You know, it goes back to anthropomorphizing plant behaviors. Let him talk. So if all a tree could do was split air to get carbon, you'd have a tree the size of a tulip. Which by the way, is definitely not a plant. JAD: Would you say that the plant is seeing the sun? And then someone has to count. Well, so what's the end of the story? So this is our plant dropper. And she says she began to notice things that, you know, one wouldn't really expect. It's condensation. ROBERT: Like, would they figure it out faster this time? All right. JENNIFER FRAZER: They're called springtails, because a lot of them have a little organ on the back that they actually can kind of like deploy and suddenly -- boing! They're one of our closest relatives, actually. So he brought them some meat. Right? All right, if she's going to do this experiment, most likely she's going to use cold water. Connecting your house to the main city water line that's in the middle of the street. Okay. Her use of metaphor. Truth is, I think on this point she's got a -- she's right. Couple minutes go by SUZANNE SIMARD: And all of a sudden we could hear this barking and yelping. They just don't like to hear words like "mind" or "hear" or "see" or "taste" for a plant, because it's too animal and too human. And so on. MONICA GAGLIANO: Picasso, enough of that now. And so I don't have a problem with that. Maybe each root is -- is like a little ear for the plant. Then he would bring them the meat and he would ring a bell. Then she takes the little light and the little fan and moves them to the other side of the plant. And Jigs at some point just runs off into the woods, just maybe to chase a rabbit. It's like, no, no, I don't do that. JENNIFER FRAZER: They're some other kind of category. ROBERT: Actually, Monica's dog leads perfectly into her third experiment, which again will be with a plant. JENNIFER FRAZER: And then they did experiments with the same fungus that I'm telling you about that was capturing the springtails, and they hooked it up to a tree. Listen to Radiolab: "Smarty Plants" on Pandora - Do you really need a brain to sense the world around you? An expert. Monica thought about that and designed a different experiment. Different kind of signal traveling through the soil? And if you don't have one, by default you can't do much in general. Connecting your house to the main city water line that's in the middle of the street. It was done by radiolab, called "smarty plants". Never mind.". You mean you got down on all fours and just And so my mom always talks about how she had to constantly be giving me worm medicine because I was -- I always had worms. Annie McWen or McEwen ], Latif Nasser, Malissa O'Donnell, Arianne Wack ], With help from Amanda Aronczyk, Shima Oliaee ], Niles Hughes, Jake Arlow, Nigar Fatali ], And lastly, a friendly reminder. Like the bell for the dog. You have a forest, you have mushrooms. They're all out in the forest. They remembered what had happened three days before, that dropping didn't hurt, that they didn't have to fold up. Radiolab - Smarty Plants. But We did catch up with her a few weeks later. Is your dog objecting to my analysis? ROBERT: And they're digging and digging and digging. Picasso! Because if I let you go it's gonna be another 20 minutes until I get to talk. ALVIN UBELL: The glass is not broken. Imagine towering trees to your left and to your right. One time, the plant literally flew out of the pot and upended with roots exposed. ROBERT: She took that notion out of the garden into her laboratory. She's not gonna use hot water because you don't want to cook your plants, you know? Again, if you imagine that the pot, my experimental pot. But it didn't happen. That's a parade I'll show up for. SUZANNE SIMARD: Yes, we don't normally ascribe intelligence to plants, and plants are not thought to have brains. If a plant doesn't have a brain what is choosing where to go? ], [JENNIFER FRAZER: Bethel Habte, Tracie Hunte, Matt Kielty ], [ALVIN UBELL: Matt Kielly. Picture one of those parachute drops that they have at the -- at state fairs or amusement parks where you're hoisted up to the top. ], Test the outer edges of what you think you know. If she's going to do this experiment, most likely she's going to use cold water. No. ROBERT: This is very like if you had a little helmet with a light on it. And the -- I'm gonna mix metaphors here, the webs it weaves. Because if I let you go it's gonna be another 20 minutes until I get to talk. ROBERT: By the way, should we establish -- is it a fact that you're ALVIN UBELL: He's on the right track. I don't know where you were that day. And every day that goes by, I have less of an issue from the day before. JENNIFER FRAZER: Yes, in a lot of cases it is the fungus. ROBERT: A little while back, I had a rather boisterous conversation with these two guys. JENNIFER FRAZER: Anyone who's ever had a plant in a window knows that. MONICA GAGLIANO: So actually, I think you were very successful with your experiment. ], [JENNIFER FRAZER: Our staff includes Simon Adler, Brenna Farrow, David Gebel. So its resources, its legacy will move into the mycorrhizal network into neighboring trees. Or even learn? So after much trial and error with click and hums and buzzes She found that the one stimulus that would be perfect was A little fan. JENNIFER FRAZER: And he would repeat this. ";s:7:"keyword";s:22:"radiolab smarty plants";s:5:"links";s:342:"St Regis Punta Mita Day Pass, Avengers Fanfiction Tony Look At Me, Articles R
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